* Record Id

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Jenny143
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Record Id

Post by Jenny143 » 16 May 2017 14:50

Apologies if this has been asked before.

Is it possible to tailor the automatically generated Individual Record Id's to each FH Project.

Eg
In my Steadman project change Ernest Steadman[1] to Ernest Steadman [STE 1] and
in my Strongitharm project changeJohn Strongitharm [1] to John Strongitharm [STR 1]

I use these Id's as a reference to store and link all of my images and media to each individual - I've worked out how to change them in diagrams but then all of my projects end up with the same Id prefix, even if I load a project from back up.

Many thanks
Jenny

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 16 May 2017 17:14

That raises a number of issues Jenny.

You cannot tailor Record Id, because it is crucial they remain unique, and if users could tailor them that could not be guaranteed. Anyway they must be numeric.

See Knowledge Base > Record Types and Record Id which cross refers to Knowledge Base > Custom Id's that, as the name implies, you can customise.

To start, you could use Tools > Record Identifiers and Copy existing record ids into the Custom Id field.
Then use the Search and Replace Plugin to add the prefix.
  1. Top right set LUA Pattern Mode
  2. Set Search Scope to Individual Records (INDI)
  3. In Basic Filters clear every tick box.
  4. On the Extra Filters tab tick only Custom Id fields halfway down on left.
  5. Return to the Major Options tab.
  6. In Search box enter (%d+)
  7. In Replace box enter STE %1
    where STE is whatever prefix you want.
What that is telling Plugin is to recognise any quantity of digits %d+ and capture them in brackets.
Then replace them with STE and a copy of that 1st capture %1

Now click the Search & Replace button.
Each replacement will be shown, and clicking Replace will move on to next.
When happy, untick Confirm every item found and click Replace to convert the rest.

HOWEVER, I don't understand how you use those Custom Id to link images and media.
What do you do with a Census Image that list all members of a household?
What do you do with a Wedding Group Photo of many relatives?

That kind of linking is what FH is designed to support electronically, and has the search tools to find everyone associated with any image without that Custom Id manual reference. May be you are not aware of all the features in FH to help with such things.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Jenny143
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Re: Record Id

Post by Jenny143 » 16 May 2017 19:53

Many thanks Mike I'll give that a go.

I use the ID's to store all records including census etc against each individual rather than family groups I need to look into the linking more carefully.

Regards

Jenny

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 16 May 2017 20:29

I can give a few examples that hopefully will show that your cross-ref Id are not needed.

For Census Images, a popular approach is to create one Census Source record and attach the Census Image to its Media tab. Then the Census Event in each Individual member of the household wil have a Citation of that Census Source. The Show Media buttons in the Facts tab and the Sources For pane can show the Census Image very easily. The adding of new Census and BMD events is best handled by Ancestral Sources that does much of the 'heavy lifting' - see Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources Census tutorial and Knowledge Base > Recording from a Census Record.

For a Birth Certificate, a similar approach is used not just for the Birth Event but also the Occupation &/or the Residence of the Father &/or Mother. See Knowledge Base > Recording from a Birth Certificate.

For a Family Group Photo that will be added once, and then Link to Face frames used for each Individual. See the video tutorial in Knowledge Base > Adding Photographs and Other Multimedia.

If you ever need to know where Photos or Images or Sources are used then there is the Where Used Record Links Plugin.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Jenny143
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Re: Record Id

Post by Jenny143 » 17 May 2017 09:14

Many thanks for your help Mike, I'll have a look at this.

Best wishes Jenny

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Re: Record Id

Post by Gowermick » 17 May 2017 12:51

Jenny,
I too use an ID as a cross reference, to identify any miscellaneous files and documents relating to an individual, such as parish register images, newspaper clippings etc. As one cannot rely on the reference ID staying constant across projects, I use a Custom_ID field, which is guaranteed not to change, is well suited to what you wish to do, and can be any format you like. In fact, at one point I used a very similar system to you with ID's like SHExxxx, THOxxxx etc. which was used to identify different branches of my tree.
As FH is so customisable, you can even get FH to display your custom_id on the main focus window, rather than the usual FH reference, which it shows by default.
Mike Loney

Using FH 6.2.7, with CC 6.7.37 Windows 10.0.14393 Build14393, LibreOffice 6.1.4.1(x64), Firefox 67.0.1(64Bit) & Thunderbird 60.7.0
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com

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Jenny143
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Re: Record Id

Post by Jenny143 » 19 May 2017 14:15

Many thanks Mike

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 21 May 2017 11:47

Same topic but different issue. I recently added a new individual to my database. In reviewing his info I find that he has been issued a record ID of 20. Now the previous person's number is 58586. I can't begin to figure out how this happened. I've tried to change this number but with no success. Can someone tell me what the procedure is?

I just installed v.6.2.5 - that is within the last half hour but that would have no affect on this situation.

Thanks for your usual good advice and assistance.

GSB
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 21 May 2017 11:57

That should NOT be possible. The new Record Id should be greater than 58586. Are you absolutely sure it is 20?

There is a renumbering procedure in Knowledge Base > Work With Record Identifiers but why bother? It is a purely arbitrary number allocated by FH.

If you add more new Individuals, what Record Id are they assigned?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 22 May 2017 08:39

I have discovered where FH keeps track of the largest used Record Id for each type.
In the Gedcom file 0 HEAD record there is a 1 _USED tag line that lists each RecordId value.
If it is manually edited to a much larger value, then FH will use the next value for any new RecordId.
But if it is manually edited to a smaller unused value, then FH corrects it back to the largest value.
So, I still don't understand how it could use a small value.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by TimTreeby » 22 May 2017 10:15

The 1 _USED tag line must of only recently been added, as older GEDCOMS I have which haven't been updated recently don't have that tag line, but newer ones do.

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 22 May 2017 10:19

I have no clue as to why this happened. I have just added quite a number of individuals that seem to have the numbers added correctly. I usually don't keep the record number visible on my record list so am not really paying attention to the record numbers. However, just looked again and found that the person with the record ID of 20 also has a custom ID of 58587 which along with 58588 and 58589 is missing in the Record IDs. Another person added the same day as I did with the record ID of 20, was given record of 21 but his "custom ID" is 19267. Another I added the same day was given a number of 5588 and a "custom ID" of 6379. It begins to look like some of the activity with that date of 5/21 created custom IDs for a number of folks. While the two with the Nos. 20 and 21 were definitely added that day, some of the others were updates of information and have custom ID as well.

Does this generate automatically? If so, it still doesn't explain the 20 and 21 as they were definitely new folks. I have NOT changed any settings. I'm totally confused.

Gremlins?
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 22 May 2017 10:38

Yes Tim, the 1 _USED tag line was added in FH V6.0, so I presume before then that FH simply logged the largest Record Id as it loaded the Gedcom file.

GSB, the Updated date-time does NOT indicate when records were added, but when anything in that record was changed.
I wonder if you did add 3 new Individuals at that time, but realised they were duplicates of existing records 20 & 21 & 5588, so merged them, which would also explain the gap of 3 in the Record Id at 58587-9 and the Update date on 20 & 21 & 5588.
Are you saying that you created those Custom Id or that you think FH created them automatically?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 23 May 2017 01:38

Record 20 and 21 were initiated on that date. Others that were initiated that date had the next consecutive #recorded. Some worked on that date were changes or additions to older data and some got assigned a Custom ID and some not. Again I have made no changes to how things are recorded.

Unfortunately, yeah, talk about learn too late, I have never used the entry date or the assessment. And no, I'm not just trying to add numbers so bypass things, I do source everything with as much info as I can find. I also check "family trees" and add data from them but also find substantiating sources, otherwise I have to discount that info. My "assessment" might or might not be all that accurate or helpful so I will leave it to whomever takes over to decide what info they feel comfortable with. At least for most of the sources they will be easily available for folks to check.

For part of this there might have been an answer had I put in the entry date - for part of it that seems to have added custom IDs to older info - I have NO idea.

So back at your door if you have any idea of how this worked out.

And, as always, thanks for your help and expertise. FH is a great program and along with FHUG folks can accomplish a lot!!!
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 23 May 2017 08:57

Well I am mystified too!
Not sure why you mention Entry Date and Assessment.
I am talking about the automatic date-time stamp in the Updated column of the Records Window and on the All tab.

If you are saying that FH has added those Custom Id by itself, then that is unheard of.
The Record Id and Custom Id although similar in name are stored completely differently in Gedcom terms.
The Record Id is stored in the header in the form 0 @I58587@ INDI.
Whereas the Custom Id is standard Data Ref %INDI.REFN% and stored in Gedcom as 1 REFN 1234.
I think you should record the actions you took on 21st May, and the current status, and report them to Calico Pie.
You can now include screen-shots if that would be helpful.

If you want to do a bit more investigation yourself, then you could explore the FH Snapshots.
First use File > Backup/Restore > Small Backup (Gedcom File Only) so you can get back to where you are now.
OR use File > Project Window > More Tasks > Copy Project and work in that copy.
Then use File > Backup/Restore > Revert to Snapshot and there should be one for each of the last few days.
You can choose to revert to any one in turn and study the state of the mysterious data on each day.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 24 May 2017 05:40

Thanks Mike. I'll try to do a bit of experimenting as you suggest. Hope I don't throw everything off. I'm thinking if I use a BACKUP from the 21st and perhaps the 22nd that would not present a problem for me [not SO much technically oriented] that I would lose data. Or maybe even better, export a copy, rename and then should have no problems.

Your best suggestion on that? I may wait till a response from you as I don't want to go into areas that I have concerns about. I'm sure there are MANY features, etc. that I still don't use or may not even be that aware of in this program. I scrambled a computer a few years ago by deleting a needed .exe file. Thankfully a nice neighbor who does computer stuff for a living saved me on that one. At least I know not to do some things that can cause problems.

Thanks again.
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 24 May 2017 08:36

You are wise to be cautious.
However, follow the procedure below and all will be well.
Apart from the initial Backup, it just uses the Snapshot Manager that keeps an automatic history of your Gedcom.
  1. Use File > Backup/Restore > Small Backup (Gedcom File Only) as insurance just in case!
  2. Use File > Backup/Restore > Revert to Snapshot and choose any auto Snapshot taken before 21st May.
    Take note of the warnings, but go ahead and revert. A Snapshot of your current Gedcom will be preserved.
  3. Investigate the Individual records, Record Id & Custom Id at that date and note your findings.
  4. Repeat those last two steps with other Snapshot dates as you feel necessary
  5. Finally, use File > Backup/Restore > Revert to Snapshot and choose the first Snapshot Taken on 24 May 2017 with Type 'Pre-revert' without Notes and your Gedcom will revert to its state before you started these steps.
    (Do NOT use ones with Notes of digits in round brackets (2) or (3), nor any auto ones at this step.)
I am particularly interested in Individual records with Record Id of 20 & 21 & 5588 & 58587-9 before the 21st May.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 25 May 2017 08:55

Finally found the answer. Came in a strange way though. I was following your instructions about going back a few days and looking at the numbers there. I made my notes and then while trying to restore the latest file, I fouled up and was about to panic. Got that solved. Then since #20 was husband to one in the file from long ago - though I hadn't added anything to her in quite some time - I went back to a file that I had with, and in, FTM from 2008. Opened that AND found #20 [though of course not that # in FTM]. So he and #21 were there all the time ---- just had not been added to or further researched.

The other thing I saw was that many that had been in my database for a long time did have both a Record ID and a custom ID. Frequently they were close in numbers so my GUESS is that when I converted to FH the FH Record ID was initiated and the previous number from another program became the Custom ID. You will certainly be able to answer that question.

SO glad that was resolved but came across another problem. As I panicked when starting to go back to my most current file, I went into my folder of MANY FH backups. All there with the dates, times, etc. Clicked on the date I wanted to start and got a pop up message -" unable to locate application" WHAT? It seems none want to open. I went back into FH and looked again at snapshot and selected the date I wanted from that list. Got that back. But what's with the -" unable to locate application"? If I have all these backups and none open, where is my security? I MUST be doing something really dumb - sorry to be such a dunce after using FH for so many years. Old age catches up to one eventually.

Thanks for your GOOD advice and patience!!! At least we know FH didn't do something really strange.
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 25 May 2017 09:43

Forgot to put in a listing of one of my backups. They are all listed pretty much this way.

FH Gedcom Backup - Sherwood FH Sept 2011 - 2017-05-24 0741

Maybe that helps in why no application was found?

Thanks again.
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by johnmorrisoniom » 25 May 2017 10:10

Do remember that the backup must be restored using the FH Restore route, you cannot just double click on it to open it.

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 25 May 2017 10:51

Phew! I am really glad the Record Id mystery has been resolved.
I had my suspicions all along that #20 & #21 existed before 21st May and were simply updated on that date.
Strange that you were so convinced you had added them on that date, just a day or two before your original posting.

It is quite likely that the Custom Id field could have been imported from FTM.
It is my understanding that the %INDI.REFN% field is supported by FTM but not sure what name FTM uses.

As John says, use File > Backup/Restore > Restore Backup to restore those FH Backup ZIP files.
(That was staring you in the face every time you use the Snapshot manager.)
See Knowledge Base > Backup and Recovery for full details.

I know you have used FH a long time, but a quick review of Knowledge Base > Key Features for Newcomers may be worthwhile just to check you have not overlooked some key aspects.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 26 May 2017 07:44

Back to the salt mines unfortunately OR we may just have to say ???? STRANGE.

Was convinced when I wrote my last post [but was probably somewhat fuzzy headed due to the hour] that I had the answer as I found the individuals - No. 20 and 21- in FTM from 2008 as well as the spouse. What I did NOT do was search for their ID Nos. in FTM - had to do some research there as of course their format is totally different and the ID numbers don't show as part of the listing of names.

Here is what I found in FTM:
Mary Augusta Sherwood in FTM has Person ID of 6379 - her custom ID in FH is 6379.
Her two spouses:
Male Lamberton in FTM has Person ID of 19266 - NO. 20 - no custom ID in FH
Joseph W. Roe in FTM has Person ID of 19267 - NO 21- no custom ID in FH
Obviously the two spouses were added at the same time and were from the same source.

Now I did make some changes to those records on May 22 but obviously not their record numbers.

From FH Record ID NO 58590 down the next No. is 58586 - guess one of those missing MIGHT belong to NO. 20 and one to NO.21. But what caused the skip? If I delete a person does that take out the record number? I don't recall deleting anyone but since I work a lot with the database over many hours, I possibly could have.

So are we at a stand still or should we just throw in the towel? I don't know that I am missing anyone - large database.
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 26 May 2017 10:30

Yes, when any Record is deleted, its Record Id goes with it, as explained in Knowledge Base > Record Types and Record Id.

The whole point of the Snapshot exercise was to discover whether those two spouses Lamberton & Roe existed in FH before 21st May and what their FH Record Id were. Did you perform that analysis?

The fact they existed in FTM in 2008 suggests they were imported into FH with Mary Augusta Sherwood at the same time.
What is her Record Id in FH?

If you made changes to those records on 22nd May then their Updated date-time-stamp will be 22 May 2017.
Could you investigate and post the Name, Record Id, Custom Id & Updated time-stamp for all three Individuals.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Record Id

Post by goodwin2 » 26 May 2017 11:54

Previous note had some of those ID Nos.

Then just now I did another snapshot for May 20 and one for May 9.

For Lambertson updated on 5/20 and ID is 20 and custom is 19266
For Roe updated 5/20 and ID is 21 and custom is 19267
For Mary Augusta Sherwood updated 5/20 record ID is 5588 and custom ID is 6379


On May 9 which is as far back as the snapshot went:
Record numbers all the same as above except the name was Lamberton and they all were updated 4/19.

Does that help at all?
GSB

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Re: Record Id

Post by tatewise » 26 May 2017 13:44

Yes, it confirms that all three existed many weeks ago, and were NOT added on 21st May as you claimed.
They were probably imported from FTM a long time ago.

They have always had, and still have, and will continue to have Record Id numbers 20, 21 & 5588.

Contrary to your last posting, they ALL have Custom Id that match the Person Id of 19266, 19267 & 6379 imported from FTM.

So this whole exercise appears to have been a wild goose chase, and FH did NOT add new Individuals with low Record Id.

You simply changed some details associated with those Individuals on the 21st May and that date was automatically entered by FH as their Updated date, because that was when they were updated.

The three other Individuals you did add on 21st May were correctly given the next available Record Id but have subsequently been deleted leaving the gap 58587 - 58589.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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