* Military Service multiple Enlistments

[Mike Davies]

Hi can someone help please.
My grandfather joined the Grenadier Guards in 1901 and was discharged in 1913. He then joined or was sub scripted to the RGA in 1915 until 1919.
My problem is in recording both enlistments and subsequent data on the military tab in the property box as there is only place for one enlistment.
Thanks in advance
Mike

[tatewise]

Just like the Main tab only shows one Occupation but does not prevent more Occupations being added via the Facts tab, the Military tab only shows one set of Enlistment details but does not prevent others being added via the Facts tab.

To show those extra details on the Military tab can be done via the cog Menu > Customize Data Entry options. Essentially, you must create a duplicate set of entries for the Enlisted Items but each Data Reference will have an index of [2] instead of [1]. Can you cope with that, or do you need more detailed instructions?

Another option is to add a 2nd Military tab and change all the Data References to use different indexes. You can Rename the tab to say Military 2. The only snag is that some Items such as Military Regiment 1/2/3 already have multiple indexes. So those would need further consideration.

[AdrianBruce]

... He then joined or was sub scripted to the RGA in 1915 until 1919...

1915 will still be volunteering - if it's towards the end of 1915, he may have volunteered under what's know as the Derby Scheme, which essentially said, "Conscription's definitely coming but if you volunteer now, then, like any volunteer you get to choose which unit you go into. Also, we'll sign you up now but you can go back into civvy street for some while until we need you, when we'll send for you." See http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers ... by-scheme/

[Mike Davies]

Hi Mike thanks for your swift reply as always. I've install another military tab and named it military2 as suggested and I've renumbered the regiment reference data 4, 5, & 6 and this seems to be working. The military rank doesn't seem to be a custom item and as he was a private in the guards and a gunner in the RGA I will just have to use a sentence in the box to explain the two ranks unless you can suggest a workaround but this is a minor point
To Adrian many thanks for the link it's great to have all the support and info that this forum gives
Many thanks to you both

[tatewise]

The problem with Military Regiment 4/5/6 is that the first three Military Regiment facts will appear on the Military tab and the next three on the Military 2 tab, regardless of which Enlistment they are associated with.

The non-(custom) Items are explained as follows, with a workaround.
In the Customize Property Box dialogue, untick Show most commonly-used items only.
You will then find Items such as Religion, Wounded (Military), Military Rank, and Military Trade/Skill on the left.
The four non-(custom) Items are derived from these default options and simply display the first instance of the fact full width of tab.

In the Military 2 tab, replace those four Items with a <Custom Item> but with the same Item Name and Part 1 Label.
Then in the Data Reference use <<Select to enter the matching Attribute/Event but edit its index from [1] to [2].

The overriding snag with this whole approach is that to get any fact to appear on the Military 2 tab, you must enter an equivalent fact on the Military tab first. A little experimentation with entering facts will demonstrate the problem. In other words you cannot get a Wounded (Military)[2] without first entering a Wounded (Military)[1].

[AdrianBruce]

... a private in the guards and a gunner in the RGA ...

Yes, just throwing another "real world" bit in - private and gunner are actually the same level - it's simply that the name is "private" in most (but not all) of the infantry and "gunner" in the artillery, so a note would seem perfectly adequate.

As a rule, I now tend to deal with most things military in the note sentence for the Military Service attribute. Creating separate events or attributes is most useful if you want to search on the particular facts that they describe. But if you're content to just write the stuff for reading later, then there's no virtue, to my mind, in creating separate facts. This was brought home to me when I printed someone's details - the Military Service fact printed out his service from 1914 to 1918 in the report, but the report then promptly when back to 1916 to cover "wounded" and "awarded" events of that year.

If, one the other hand, you want to compare lots of things military across lots of soldiers, you'll probably want separate facts beyond the Military Service attribute for ease of access to the data. (An alternative is "labelled text" but I'm never keen on what it does to the reports. Personal preference again. And lack of time to write real, free text narratives).

[Mike Davies]

Thank you both for your replies. I've not had a chance to do anything since Wednesday and I'm on my way out now hopefully I'll have time later on today to fully look at your replies. Many thanks once again.
Mike

[Mike Davies]

Hi Mike I've had a chance to experiment with the various settings and all seemed to be going well until a tried to add a second posting tab which I could do alright until I added the Place reference. On pressing the OK button I got the following mmessage " This data referencecontains one or more links to other records. These are not permitted in this context."
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks Mike

[tatewise]

The trailing chevron > makes the Data Ref a link to the Place record, which is not supported here.

So, remove the chevron > and it will refer to the local Place field, which will be OK, and displays the same Place name.

If you check other custom Place items, such as on the Military tab, you will see what I mean.

[Mike Davies]

Thanks Mike all working fine now. Brilliant help
Many Thanks once again
Mike

[Mike Davies]

Adrian many thanks for the link it made very interesting reading and answered a lot of questions. I had found the Long Long Trail before but had not seen that info.
Mike

[KiwiDigger]

Various members of my family (including myself) have three separate stints in armed forces, including armies of different countries. I have created two extra Military tabs and renamed them 2 and 3 as suggested, but when I try to change the individual field names (Enlisted to Enlisted 2 for example) a warning box comes. Could I please have simple instructions for how to proceed.
It seems that there is a need to have extra Military tabs which are independent of each other, as this is the one area where there should be flexibility - many people served separately each world war, or Boer War and WWI, etc. And were wounded in one war but not in another.
PC running Windows 10, FH5.

[tatewise]

Welcome to the FHUG KiwiDigger.

When asking for help it is a good idea to post exact details of which field you changed, how you changed it, and what action caused the error message plus the text of the error message. Otherwise, we are guessing what the problem is and therefore guessing the solution.

I don't think it affects the problem you describe, but I wonder if you have downloaded and installed the fhugdownloads:contents:military_history|> Fact Set ~ Military History for Property Box Tab?

From your description it sounds like you have successfully created three tabs named Military, Military 2, and Military 3.
All three will update/display just the 1st instance of custom facts such as Enlisted (Military).

You use the Property Box cog Menu > Customize Data Entry for the Military 2 tab.
You select the Enlisted (custom) item on right and click Edit Custom Item button.
You can change the Custom Item Name and either the Part 1 or Part 2 Label to whatever you wish.
Both Part 1 and Part 2 Data Reference also needs the [1] to be replaced with [2].
You then click OK and OK again for the changes to take effect.
Where in this sequence is the error message produced and what does it say?

To allow complete freedom to enter any combination of facts for more than one conflict, will require independent custom facts for each conflict, because the instances [1], [2], [3], et seq, will not work.
e.g.
Enlisted 1, and Enlisted 2, and Enlisted 3, et seq.
Wounded 1, and Wounded 2, and Wounded 3, et seq.
Posted 1, and Posted 2, and Posted 3, et seq.
which are very different from Enlisted[1], Enlisted[2], Enlisted[3], etc.

[KiwiDigger]

Thank you very much, tatewise. I've now set up 3 Military Tabs, & renumbered/renamed them as you suggest, & it all looks good. I've been able to add different data into the same fields in the three tabs, except for the fields that are repeated, such as Regiment. These seem to only be able to hold one line of data - when the second box is clicked it automatically adds the data from the first box. Then when the second unwanted data is deleted, it deletes the first data too.
To get around these remaining issues are there further changes that I could do via Edit Custom Item? If not, I guess the changes I've made with your help do sort out the storage of most of the information for multiple military data, which is a lot more than I could do under my previous program!.

Thanks again, tatewise

[tatewise]

You need to ensure each box uses a different index number [n] in its Data Reference.

So for Regiment, 1st tab uses [1], [2], [3], and 2nd tab uses [4], [5], [6], but as mentioned earlier you have to enter all three boxes on 1st tab before any get used on 2nd tab, and so on.

One solution is to only have one Regiment per tab. Another is to have a different custom Regiment fact for each tab.

[KiwiDigger]

Yes, that's sorted out the multiple entries (Regiment, Address, etc) within multiple Military Tabs. Thanks tatewise.
The remaining issues are only to do with some fields (Wounded, Promoted, etc) which, when something is added, gets added to the same field in the other Military Tabs. It sounds like these can't be easily fixed or got around, so I'm happy to live with them.
Thanks for your patient help, tatewise.

[KiwiDigger]

Following on from the previous, I've noticed that the data that I have added to the Regiment fields, in each of the 3 Military Tabs, is moved to the Regiment fields under the first Military Tab when ever I restart the computer. I think that I have followed the suggestions, but just to be sure, here is a screen print of the Edit Custom Item page of the third Regiment of the third Military Tab:
I wonder is there something else I should be doing?

[tatewise]

Yes, that is what I said several times.
It does not matter which tab you enter the data into, it will always migrate to the earliest available instance.
So if you enter on Military tab 2 or 3 and there are no Regiment fields entered on tab 1, then effectively you are entering the first instance [1].

The only workaround is to create separate Custom Facts for each tab.
i.e. Regiment for tab 1, Regiment2 for tab 2, and Regiment3 for tab 3.