* Version 6.1 Relationship Citations

[BarbaraL]

I am looking at FH as a possible new home (migrating from TMG). Although I can successfully add a citation, I can't quite figure out how to use the new FH 6.1 capability to cite a source for a relationship from the sources pane of the property box. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

Barbara

[tatewise]

Welcome to the FHUG Barbara.
Visit the FH V6.1 download page at Upgrade to V6.1 where all the new features are explained in full. Click on "You can now add source citations for relationship information" for an explanation of adding Citation to Father Witness of Birth Event.

If you know how to add Witnesses to a Fact , then the new feature is adding a Citation to a Witness.

[BarbaraL]

Thanks, Mike. I missed the instructions there because I was reading under "Enhancement for TMG users".

Since the event that determined a biological father-child relationship preceded the birth by about 9 months and the father might have died in the meantime, I wonder whether the note technique for sourcing parent-child relationships, Sourcing the parent-child relationship (11304), might be the better way to go. What do experienced FH users think?

Barbarab

[tatewise]

I have split this off as a separate topic.

Barbara, that the father might have died by the time of the Birth event is somewhat irrelevant. Dead people are often Principals in events let alone Witnesses, e.g. Burial, Cremation, and Probate events. As explained in the same Upgrade to V6.1 link, do not confuse the normal meaning of witness with the formal 'Witness' concept in Events, where the 'Role' defines the nature of the 'witnessing'. 'Associate' or 'Agent' may be a better term.

So the Witness Role Father to a Birth Event defines the Father of the Child in all circumstances. It does NOT mean the Father witnessed the Birth, but rather that his Role was Father of the child being born.

[SimonOrde]

Barbara, you probably already know this, but just in case you aren't clear (or someone else reading this thread isn't clear), to add a source citation for a (birth) father (Y) of person X you do this:

(1) Add the Birth event in the Facts tab of the Property Box for person X, if you haven't already
(2) Make sure the yellow source pane for the Property Box is open (click on the 'Open Source' button - yellow scroll - to open it if it isn't).
(3) Right-click on X's Birth event in the Facts tab list and choose 'Witnesses' from the dropdown menu that appears. This opens the 'Witnesses' window as a floating window (if not already open)
(4) Confirm that the caption of the Witnesses Window mentions the Birth event for X and click the 'Add' button to add the father, Y, as a witness to the birth event, with role 'father' or 'parent' as preferred.
(5) Select the father in the Witnesses window. You should notice when you do this that the 'Sources for' field in the yellow source pane says "Birth-Father: Y" (followed by Y's record id). Leaving the Witnesses Window open, click the 'Add Citation' button below the citation list in the yellow source pane, to add a citation for Y as birth father of X.

To add a source citation for a birth mother, just repeat steps (4) and (5), for the mother.

The Witnesses window is a floating window. You can leave it open. You don't have to close it to do other things. It will always update itself automatically to show witnesses for whichever Fact you have selected in the Facts tab.

The Sources pane shows source citations for whatever item of information is currently selected in the Property Box _or_ in the Witnesses Window.

Hope that makes sense.

[BarbaraL]

Thanks Mike and Simon! It is very helpful to hear from experienced users (not to mention developers ) to get a sense for how to use the FH features.

[BarbaraL]

A follow-up question to make sure that I fully understand your recommended best practice. It is not uncommon for the only evidence for the identity of the parent of an individual to come from a record other than a birth record such as baptism, marriage, death, probate, a biography, etc. Do you recommend that any and all such evidence be sourced via the Witness Role father (or mother) on the birth fact because, as you say, "the Witness Role Father to a Birth Event defines the Father of the Child in all circumstances"? If not, how would you source such evidence coming from a biography, for example?

Thanks again for your patience in teaching a newbie how FH-ers think!

Barbara

[tatewise]

Ok, so the first thing is that every Individual should normally have a Birth Event, as they must have been born, even if not sure where or when. If necessary, use an estimated Date or Date Range derived from Baptism, Census, Death, etc.

So there will always be a Birth Event for the Witness as Father/Mother.

The Source Citation(s) can be any evidence that confirms the parentage regardless of what event it is associated with. So for example a Baptism Source document can be cited by not only the Baptism Event, but also the Birth Event, and the Witness as Father/Mother entries.

There are various ways of recording Source evidence as explained in how_to:key_features_for_newcomers|> Key Features for Newcomers under Sources Methods 1 & 2.

[goodwin2]

My question is how do I indicate the relationship of a child born before the acknowledged parents were married?

I have Fern Lillibridge, b. 23 Dec 1926; mother Dorothy Lillibridge m. Linford Acre, 7 June 1927. Fern does not appear in the 1930 census anywhere that I can find. Dorothy and Linford are in the 1930 census with another child. Fern is married as a Lillibridge. Her death certificate shows her as Fern Acre Dalaba with parents Linford Acre and Dorothy Lillibridge Acre.

She was born out of wedlock but acknowledged at some point by the parents. Though her birth surname was that of her unwed mother, she is their child. So does that leave her without any designation other than a standard birth relationship? This is the first that I have encountered this as far as I am aware.

Input is appreciated.

[DavidNewton]

In my opinion if you are certain about the identity of the birth parents then their married status at the time of the birth is irrelevant and the child should be recorded in the family with birth as status and with the surname that they were given at birth.

If you are not certain about the father's identity then the child should be recorded as birth for the mother and in a family record with unknown father. I think it would be a mistake to use the step- designation and record them in the married family.

David

[mjashby]

GSB,

As the names you quoted are quite unusual I thought I'd take a look at the information in the 1930 and 1940 US Census. Of course, I'm not sure why you believe 'Fern Lillibridge was Linford and Dorothy (Lilibridge) Acre's illegitimate daughter, although you may well be correct.

From the Census information alone, I get:

1. 1940 Census - Fern Lillibridge, aged 13, is described as the 'daughter' of Bertha Lillibridge, a widow aged 64. Clearly an improbable relationship, but not beyond the bounds of possibility that Fern had been 'adopted' by Bertha.

2. As you mentioned Fern Lillibridge does not appear in the 1930 Census, when she would have been about 3 years old. However, Widow Bertha's household did include a 3 year-old girl named Millicent Crandle, described as a 'cousin', who does not appear to be recorded in the 1940 Census!

3. Questions given the above coincidences: Have you eliminated the possibility that:

- Millicent Crandle and Fern Lillibridge may have been the same person?
- Bertha may have 'adopted' the girl and changed her name at some time between 1930 and 1940?
- Linford & Dorothy (Lillibridge) Acre may have assumed continuing parental responsibility for the girl after Bertha's death?

With regard to the direct question about recording the family relationships and given the possibility of 'doubts' about parentage I would tend towards setting the relationship of Fern Lillibridge to both Linford Acre and Dorothy (Lillibridge) Acre (and also to Bertha) as 'de facto' daughter unless/until there is some clear evidence of genetic/adoptive relationships between the parties, e.g. a Birth or Baptism Record.

Mervyn

[goodwin2]

Thanks for the input and suggestions. Bertha Lillibridge could not have been the mother of Fern as Bertha's husband died in 1918 and Fern was born in 1926. The fact that Fern's death certificate lists Linford and Dorothy as parents seems to make the best case for their being her parents. Yes, the "Millicent Crandle" in the 1930 household could have been a made up name to conceal a parentage that was questionable. In that time frame society tended to turn a scornful eye on illegitimacy.

So, I'll stick with Fern, with surname Lillibridge, as a child of Linford and Dorothy. Sorting out these family relationships can be kind of fun. Wonder what it was like in that family -----

GSB

[AnneEast]

Just to be a pedant .... there's no reason Bertha could not be the mother just because her husband had died several years before!! Bertha's apparent age is another matter of course.
Anne

[goodwin2]

As to Anne's comment - yes, possible that Bertha could be Fern's mother. We do see women who give birth later than the norm. Just think I'll leave Bertha's "likely" reputation as "faithful to husband" intact.

Bertha did have sons that could possibly be Fern's father but since daughter, Dorothy and her husband are on record as the parents, I feel it is more likely that Fern is their daughter.

Thanks for the input.

[mjashby]

GSB,

Yes, in the end it's entirely your choice over how you choose to define the relationship, but the following are the questions that would go through my mind when faced with a similar situation, and why I would normally choose to initially define the parentage as 'de facto' until more evidence could be found.

1. Information about a person's birth appearing on a Death Certificate should always be treated as secondary evidence unless there are additional corroborative records or the person who reported the death knew the individual from birth or would have had access to records confirming the information given.

2. Parentage details on the Death certificate would be exactly the same whether the relationship was Birth or Adoption, i.e. the requirement is that the 'legal' rather than the genetic relationship is what matters on such documents. These Certificates weren't designed with genealogists' needs in mind.

3. The informant could only provide what they knew to be fact, what they believed to be fact, or what they were told by someone about the deceased's past life and that may or may not have been the truth.

4. If you choose to accept the detail given on Fern's Death Certificate presents an accurate record of a genetic relationship to her 'parents' then, presumably, you must also accept that 'Fern' was born in Akron, Ohio and not Port Allegany, Pennsylvania, as indicated in the 1940 Census. So, is there any other evidence that either of her 'parents' were ever in Akron, Ohio? If not, how do you explain that apparent discrepancy?

It's all part of the challenge and interest of family history, putting the most accurate picture of someone's life together. You've only got around 6 years to wait for the US 1950 which might offer further evidence, unless there are direct descendants of the family who know and are willing to reveal more. At least the mystery isn't UK based or you would have to wait until 2051, unless you could obtain a relevant Birth Certificate/Baptism record!

Mervyn

[goodwin2]

Mervyn,

All points well made. Lacking sufficient documentation that Fern is Dorothy and Linford's natural child, she is now de facto.

These are not close relatives so won't be pursuing too much further. Coming from a line that is fairly long lived, I may still be around to check out the 1950 US Census!