* Incorrect lifespan dates in Focus window

[JohnLiddle]

I have several instances where I have more than one possible birth date and/or death date for an individual. These derive from different sources.

FH seems to make up its own mind as to which of these dates to use to display the lifespan in the focus window.

For instance, where I have 6 possible birth dates ranging from 1816 to 1821, FH has (somehow) chosen to use 1816 as the first lifespan date.

Similarly, the same individual has a definite death fact dated 1879 and also a subsidiary indication of "before 1881" (derived from the census which shows his wife as a widow).

FH chooses to use the "before 1881" date as the end of the lifespan, which is a nonsense.

How can one indicate which dates are to be used?

In TMG, tags (facts) could be designated as "Primary" to indicate that they were to be used for such purposes.

[tatewise]

I guess by 'subsidiary indication' you mean another Death Event with Date = 'before 1881'?

FH will have a precise rule for choosing Life Dates when there are multiple instances of Birth &/or Death, or if none of them then Baptism, Christening, Burial, or Creamation.

I imagine it will depend on the order of the Events in the Individual Record. Perhaps the 1st Birth and 1st Death or maybe last Death. Remember the Record order is NOT necessarily the Date order displayed in the Facts tab unless you have told FH to Re-order Facts in Date Order.

Does that explain what you are seeing?

[JohnLiddle]

Hmmm..... well not entirely.

Putting Facts in Date Order does change things, but it makes it clearer that FH merely takes the first birth fact it sees as the start of the life span and the first death fact it sees as the end of the span.

No genealogy program should make assumptions on the part of the user and there should be some method in FH of indicating which dates are to be used for lifespan (and therefore for age calculations). The lack of this ability is a serious weakness in the program.

[AdrianBruce]

... a definite death fact dated 1879 and also a subsidiary indication of "before 1881" (derived from the census which shows his wife as a widow).

FH chooses to use the "before 1881" date as the end of the lifespan, which is a nonsense.

How can one indicate which dates are to be used? ....

The question of what multiple Birth events or multiple Death events are supposed to mean in a GEDCOM file is a bit of a muddle. (And I say that as one who normally defends the GEDCOM spec'n). I just tried to see what the spec'n says and am none the wiser. It does seem to say that the first event (of any given type) is the primary but then how does that work with multiple occupations, multiple residences, etc, where it is clear that all are deemed to be independently and equally true?

I am fairly certain that I have read that the usual meaning of multiple births or deaths is that they are taken to be alternatives - again, with no question that one is primary or more important than the others. That being so, if you try to produce one answer to the death date for someone having a death in 1879 and one before 1881, then the only logically true statement is that they died before 1881. Not a nonsense at all.

None of which is any help to you since the facility that you used in TMG isn't there in FH. I'm just trying to explain what you see. Again, what may be interesting (but unhelpful?) is to explain what I'd do in a case like that: I'd have one death fact valued 1879 and there'd be two sources for that single event. Both would be visible in the yellow(?) Sources pane when the death was selected. One source would be for the 1879 event and the other for the 1881 census. For the 1879 source, I'd probably complete the "text from source" with 1879, and for the 1881 census I'd probably put "Mary was a widow in 1881" in the Note in the yellow sources pane against the 1881 source.

I always think that it is best to regard the "facts" in FH as being conclusions and not evidence. If the facts were evidence then it would be correct to have multiple deaths, one per source-record. If the facts are conclusions then there can only be one death but with multiple source-records. One might wish the facts were evidence but in most cases, a safer interpretation is to take them as being conclusions. Like I say - a pain for you.

Do any other TMG users have any comment on this question of marking a birth or death as the primary events?

[brianlummis]

As a newcomer to FH from TMG, I think that you have just given me a Eureka Moment, Adrian! I have been puzzling over how to record multiple events, having been used to the TMG primary and other events. Your explanation of what you would do to record a death does make complete sense and I can also see how it could be used for occupations and residences by making the date span a period and making the assumption that there were no changes in between - the likelihood of someone changing residence and/or occupation and then returning to the old one is possible but unlikely.
Having been ingrained with TMG logic for nearly 20 years, I am finding that I am having to question whether it was the best way of working and looking at new ways of doing things. I have come to the conclusion that no one program does everything the way I might want but at least FH seems to give me most things.

[LornaCraig]

My angle on this is that nobody can be born more than once or die more than once, so it makes no sense to have more than one birth or death event, even if the gedcom spec allows it.

The first time you find any evidence for the date of birth/death, however imprecise, create a birth/death event and cite the source against it. As you find more evidence you may be able to narrow down the date range or you may have to extend it if two sources with equal assessment value are incompatible. Cite each new source against the event, adjust the date or date range if neccessary, and use the note field to explain why you have (perhaps) given more weight to some sources than others. You can re-order the sources so that the most precise or most reliable are at the top of the list. But never make it look as if someone was born or died more than once!

[tatewise]

I tend to agree with the above strategy, but if you really need multiple Birth and Death events here are some ideas.

We have established that the rule FH uses is to only consider the 1st instance of any multiple Facts.

(1) Record Order
On the All tab it is possible to shift Facts up and down so that any one of the multiple events comes 1st. This is the Record order and will be what FH uses for Lifedates, etc.
Note that on the Facts tab they are still listed in Date order.
However, if you use Tools > Re-order Out-of-Sequence Data, and apply it unconditionally, it will undo the Record order and return to Date order.

(2) Date Phrases
In this technique only one of the multiple events has an actual Date which is the one you want FH to use for Lifedates.
The others use Date Phrase format where the date is enclosed in "string quotes".
Use the All tab as above to ensure the actual Date event is 1st followed by the others.
Now Tools > Re-order Out-of-Sequence Data will not affect the order of these Facts becasue only one has an actual Date.

[NickWalker]

I respect the right of people to use Family Historian in the way that suits them, but I agree with Lorna. People are only born once and die once so to have multiple births or deaths for an individual is just confusing. There may be various sources which give different birth dates so these sources should be recorded but they can only lead to one birth in my opinion.

Regarding occupations, there may be various times in a person's life where their occupation may appear in source documents. So for example there may be 5 census forms over 50 years that record an individual's occupation as farmer. I like to see this in my list of facts as it gives useful snapshots of their life. In common with most family history software, FH opts to have a single 'occupation' displayed for an individual on the main tab - I think if a single summary occupation is to be displayed like that then FH really needs the ability to tag a particular occupation as being the preferred one.

[Valkrider]

Regarding occupations, there may be various times in a person's life where their occupation may appear in source documents. So for example there may be 5 census forms over 50 years that record an individual's occupation as farmer. I like to see this in my list of facts as it gives useful snapshots of their life. In common with most family history software, FH opts to have a single 'occupation' displayed for an individual on the main tab - I think if a single summary occupation is to be displayed like that then FH really needs the ability to tag a particular occupation as being the preferred one.

I must admit that I find this one 'master' occupation a limitation/annoyance in FH. I like Nicks idea of choosing which one you want as the 'master'. Is this something for the wish list?

[NickWalker]

I'm not claiming 'preferred occupation' as my idea and indeed it was added to the wishlist 9 years ago and is currently 3rd in the table.