* FH-v5 AS-v4 WinXP Crossover & Wine Bottles

[tatewise]

The mystery deepens.
I would have expected the path to My Documents in a Win XP environment to involve:
C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\My Documents...

Gerry, how did you obtain your AS Options Backup.xml file?
AS v4.0.1 has only just been installed into Crossover and you say its Backup/Restore commands don't work.
So AS cannot have created that file in Crossover.
I suspect you copied it from a Windows 7 system where C:\Users\Owner\Documents\Ancestral Sources\ was a valid path.

As Nick suggests, check in AS that Tools > Options > General settings specify valid Folders within Crossover.

The general rule is that those AS Folders and the FH File > Project Window > Location and Tools > Preferences > Backup Folder should all have similar paths to the My Documents folder, and the folders specified must actually exist.
I shall add that advice to the how_to:install_family_historian_with_crossover_wine|> How to Install Family Historian with Crossover and Wine.

[gerrynuk]

Mike and Nick,

The AS Options Backup.xml file was created in Win 8. I have copied it to the Crossover version of C: but AS still can't "see" it. When I try to change the backup path AS asks if I want to create the backup folder but when I change it back to the default (see below) it finds the folder.

I tried Nick's alternative file paths but AS says the folders don't exist and when I click to create them I just get the same error message.

This is the Options window with the AS default settings:

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 14.39.20.png (45.63 KiB) Viewed 12302 times

[tatewise]

That poses another set of questions.

I presume you copied the AS Options Backup.xml file into C:\users\crossover\My Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backups\?

If you remove that file, does AS still complain about Tools > Backup A.S. Options with the default folder settings?

The default folders in AS are of the form C:\users\crossover\My Documents\Ancestral Sources\...
How do those compare with the FH File > Project Window > Location and Tools > Preferences > Backup > Default Backup Folder?
How do they all compare with \\psf\Home\Documents\Family Historian Projects specified within AS Options Backup.xml?

Which of all those AS and FH folders actually exist in Crossover?

If any do not exist, then create them using Crossover, because as Colin and you found, programs like FH and AS often cannot create folders themselves when running in Crossover.

I still find it odd that Crossover does not use C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\My Documents in its Win XP bottle to be compatible with real Windows XP.

A question for Nick :-
How portable is the AS Options Backup.xml file?
As Gerry has found, copying it from Win 8 to Crossover/Win XP poses problems with file paths that differ between the source and target environments.
If users need to migrate AS from one PC to another PC with different folder paths, and retain their settings, can they do it?

[gerrynuk]

Mike,

Yes, you can see from the screen dump below that the Options file is in the Backup folder and the image also shows the file path. There are, in fact, two alternative paths - see second screen dump. The third screen dump is the FH project path.

No, I get the same error message whether the options file is present or not.

These are the file paths in FH:

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 15.55.37.png (202.48 KiB) Viewed 12295 times

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 16.02.10.png (47.27 KiB) Viewed 12295 times

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 16.08.36.png (26.16 KiB) Viewed 12295 times

and the FH Tools>Preferences>Default Backup Folder path is:

C:\users\crossover\My Documents\Family Historian Projects\Newnham-Jacobs\Newnham-Jacobs.fh_data\Backup

so they all appear to be consistent.

The required paths and folders all seem to exist so I haven't had to create them manually.

[NickWalker]

If users need to migrate AS from one PC to another PC with different folder paths, and retain their settings, can they do it?

Yes. If the setting/logs/backup folders don't exist, or you don't have write access to them on the new PC then they are created. Ancestral Sources creates these by default in the Documents folder for the current user and it uses a system variable to find this information out (not an old DOS system variable) - this is simply a .Net call but it is probably using whatever is in the registry in the system shell folders (I'd guess).

I don't think this is an AS problem, I think that there is a configuration issue somewhere with Gerry's set-up.

[NickWalker]

Gerry. If you go to Options in Ancestral Sources will it let you change the paths to:

Z:\Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backup (etc.)

I had a brief glance at a page on Wine and it suggested that these 'bottles' run sand-boxed and can only access the Mac's documents folder through the Z drive.

[gerrynuk]

Hi Nick,

No, when I change the file path as instructed then tab out I get the message that the folder can't be found. If I click on Create I just get the same error message.

[gerrynuk]

This are screen dumps of the Wine Configuration Drives and Desktop Integration screens. Don't know if they might help track down where the problem lies.

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 20.11.26.png (38.88 KiB) Viewed 12277 times

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 20.11.46.png (42.39 KiB) Viewed 12277 times

[NickWalker]

Please can you let me have the full error when you click on Create (when you try to add a new path in options) because it will be different (even if it looks the same at first glance)

You're typing the path in? What happens if you use the button at the end of the row to change.

Do you have the same problem if you go to the File menu and choose Open Gedcom File...

It will be interesting to know if Colin has the same issue.

Those Folder links (on the desktop integration config page) may well be the key to solving this - they certainly look wrong in that "My pictures" points at My Documents, My Music at My Videos, etc. but I'd guess that wouldn't be the problem.
Maybe the link from My Documents should be to Y:/
My Pictures to Y:/My Pictures
etc. but I'm just guessing. Can you reset those links back to their defaults (I presume you changed them at some point).

Cheers

Nick

[gerrynuk]

1. Error message when trying to create new folder - Screen dump and Text file:

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 21.28.32.png (30.61 KiB) Viewed 12268 times

Create Error.txt

(4 KiB) Downloaded 245 times

2. Button allows changes without error message.

3. File>Open Gedcom File gives an error message but File>Open FH Project doesn't. Hadn't tried that before. (Have reached limit of three attachments so will repost with Error message.)

4. I haven't previously changed the file paths on the Desktop Integration screen (they seem to be what Wine created) but have now changed them to:

Screen Shot 2014-04-28 at 21.24.37.png (41.81 KiB) Viewed 12268 times

Do they look OK to you?

[gerrynuk]

Error message when I try to open a Gedcom file:

Open Gedcom Error.txt

(4 KiB) Downloaded 292 times

[NickWalker]

I think the Gedcom file error is actually another copy of the create error. Would you mind doing that again?

So if you use the button you don't get an error - so if you set the 3 folders using the button does it then let you backup your settings?

Edit:Actually I can reproduce the error message you're getting when typing in a new location for settings, etc. I need to 'handle' this error more elegantly and will do so in the next version. I get the error if I type in a folder path where AS can't create the folder, either because the user doesn't have permission or because the parent folder doesn't exist. I think that whatever path you're using, it isn't able to create the folder there for some reason.

[johnmorrisoniom]

Just a thought.. Could this be a case where relative paths to the relevant folders could work as opposed to the absolute paths that AS currently uses.
With relative paths, they would be created where crossover/wine expects them to be, as opposed to where AS wants to put them?

[gerrynuk]

I think the Gedcom file error is actually another copy of the create error. Would you mind doing that again?

So if you use the button you don't get an error - so if you set the 3 folders using the button does it then let you backup your settings?

Edit:Actually I can reproduce the error message you're getting when typing in a new location for settings, etc. I need to 'handle' this error more elegantly and will do so in the next version. I get the error if I type in a folder path where AS can't create the folder, either because the user doesn't have permission or because the parent folder doesn't exist. I think that whatever path you're using, it isn't able to create the folder there for some reason.

This is the error message window and text of the message:

Screen Shot 2014-04-29 at 07.37.05.png (46.76 KiB) Viewed 12246 times

Open Gedcom Error 2.txt

(4.85 KiB) Downloaded 237 times

I can now change the file paths using the button and with cut & paste but I still get an error when I try to backup.

[NickWalker]

Morning Gerry

I can now change the file paths using the button and with cut & paste but I still get an error when I try to backup.

So can you confirm that with these paths set that you can create entries and that AS automatically creates log entries and also backups your gedcom file after saving an entry, into the appropriate Log file and backup folders?

If so then it seems to me that the errors we're left with indicate an issue with the way Wine is interacting with the common dialog open/save control. The Open and Save dialogs are built into Windows and are easy to for programmers to use through .Net because we just have to write a couple of lines of code to have it displayed and then a line of code to see the file path that the user has selected. The actual error seems to be generated by the dialog itself, rather than my code and obviously it works fine on Windows PCs. I'll do some digging around this week and see if there's anything more I can do.

Cheers

Nick

[NickWalker]

Just a thought.. Could this be a case where relative paths to the relevant folders could work as opposed to the absolute paths that AS currently uses. With relative paths, they would be created where crossover/wine expects them to be, as opposed to where AS wants to put them?

Not really John. You can't just tell the software to save a folder wherever it likes it has to be relative to somewhere (by default). The 'somewhere' is the user's documents folder. Actually if you don't tell software where to save a file it normally tries to save it in the folder where the program is installed and people don't usually have write access to that area.

[gerrynuk]

Morning Gerry

I can now change the file paths using the button and with cut & paste but I still get an error when I try to backup.

So can you confirm that with these paths set that you can create entries and that AS automatically creates log entries and also backups your gedcom file after saving an entry, into the appropriate Log file and backup folders?

If so then it seems to me that the errors we're left with indicate an issue with the way Wine is interacting with the common dialog open/save control. The Open and Save dialogs are built into Windows and are easy to for programmers to use through .Net because we just have to write a couple of lines of code to have it displayed and then a line of code to see the file path that the user has selected. The actual error seems to be generated by the dialog itself, rather than my code and obviously it works fine on Windows PCs. I'll do some digging around this week and see if there's anything more I can do.

Cheers

Nick

Hi Nick,

I have successfully created a Death entry with the paths on the Y: drive you previously suggested and AS also created the Gedcom Backup file. However, no log file was created and there was no error message. I still cannot save or restore the settings and this still generates error messages.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Regards,

Gerry

[Valkrider]

Gerry

This is definitely something odd with your Bottle.

I can save and restore AS settings on my Mac without issue. It works exactly the same as on my PC.

I will look to see if I can package my Bottle up for you.

[tatewise]

Is it possible somehow for Gerry and Colin to compare their Bottles to determine what factors are different, so we can advise others what setting(s) are important to get correct?

Perhaps E-mail each other and exchange phone numbers, then chat through the significant settings.

[gerrynuk]

Mike,

Happy to exchange information with Colin.

I have just upgraded to the most recent version of Crossover - v13.1.3 and re-created the Family Historian Bottle from scratch. It has .Net v2 and v3.5 in addition to FH 5.0.9 and AS 4.0.1. I have also customised the bottle in accordance with the KB instructions. However, I still get problems with Backup and Restore and also with Load Gedcom, although Load Project seems to work OK. So I am at a loss as to why AS is not working properly.

Gerry

[NickWalker]

Gerry
I can save and restore AS settings on my Mac without issue. It works exactly the same as on my PC.

I will look to see if I can package my Bottle up for you.

Ah good that's a relief - thanks Colin . I think based on this I won't do any further investigation as AS can obviously be made to work as long as the configuration of the 'bottle' is correct.

As Mike says it would be great Colin if you're happy to help Gerry to sort this out.

Cheers

Nick

[tatewise]

Looking back at the Installed Applications screenshots for 24/25 Apr there are some major omissions from Gerry's list.
Crossover has some tips at http://www.codeweavers.com/support/wiki ... orted_deps.
This suggests dependencies such as Core Fonts and Internet Explorer 7 should be installed.

Try installing each of the following one at a time to see which ones make any difference.

Internet Explorer 7 - as it provides more than just a browser in any Windows OS.
It will be needed anyway for some Plugins and probably other FH and AS features.

This will probably install some or all of the Microsoft HTML/XML... applications.
Colin can probably explain how they were installed.

Core Fonts for all the TrueType font:... items.

[gerrynuk]

Mike,

I managed to load Core Fonts but it made no difference. When I tried to load Internet Explorer and Windows OLE Components I got error messages and in the case of Win OLE the install locked up.

This may be a stupid question at this stage but I have created a Windows 8 bottle: should I have created a Win 7 or Win XP bottle?

Gerry

[NickWalker]

Hi Gerry

When Colin mentioned this earlier in the thread he did say it was an XP bottle.

Just to confirm that AS v4.0.0 works perfectly in my existing Family Historian Bottle. Even though Crossover advised not installing it in that Bottle I took a chance and did. It overwrote the V3 of Ancestral Sources that was already in the Bottle and it runs fine so far with the limited testing that I have given it

So at the moment I am using Crossover V13.1.2 Family Historian 5.0.9 and Ancestral Sources v4.0.0 all on a Mac running Mavericks. The bottle is configured as a 32bit XP one.

Just to clarify, I had originally expected AS to use .Net 4 but when we got into the beta testing we found a difference in behaviour between the 64 bit and 32 bit versions which caused problems. Compiling for .Net 3.5 fixed it. As .Net 3.5 works with XP this has the (in some ways unfortunate) side-effect of AS 4 working with XP.

Nick

[Valkrider]

Nick

The odd thing here is that I don't have Net3 installed in my Bottle just Net 2 and it works fine (see the earlier post with the screenshot of what my bottle contains).