* Set Individual as Deceased

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ronk
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Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

Probably discussed elsewhere, but a quick question. Is there a 'living' flag in FH similar to Legacy? Legacy had a tic box for 'living', yes or no.I have many early folks w/o birth or death dates from early generations. Is the only way to set this involve adding a 'fact' with no other data entered? TNG will presume alive otherwise and display that fact in some screens. Or is their another way to do this?
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by LornaCraig »

FH does have a Living flag, but it is not a yes/no type of flag. So the presence of the flag indicates the person is living, but the absence of the flag does not imply they are deceased. I think you would have to create an 'empty' death event for those individuals if that is what TNG needs.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Or perhaps create your own 'Deceased' flag.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

LornaCraig wrote:FH does have a Living flag, but it is not a yes/no type of flag. So the presence of the flag indicates the person is living, but the absence of the flag does not imply they are deceased. I think you would have to create an 'empty' death event for those individuals if that is what TNG needs.
Thanks Lorna, but if there's a flag in FH, is it visible/editable anywhere? I originally migrated from LegacyFT and the living flags were apparently brought in properly. It's persons added since then that I now realize have the 'absence of the flag' so apparently assume living.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by LornaCraig »

Ron, looking back at this topic where you discussed it before, it seems that the Legacy 'Living? No' flag is exported & imported as a Death Event with no Date or Place details.
Import from LFT and Living Flag (13780)
You can set a flag in FH by right-clicking on the name in the Records Window or the All tab of the Property Box and selecting Set Flag, and you can work with the Living flag using Tools> Named Lists and Flags but it won't help, because the FH Living flag cannot indicate 'No'. It can only indicate 'Yes'.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

LornaCraig wrote:Ron, looking back at this topic where you discussed it before, it seems that the Legacy 'Living? No' flag is exported & imported as a Death Event with no Date or Place details.
Import from LFT and Living Flag (13780)
Whoops, your detective skills caught up with my past! I reread that and I guess my omission in FH is to make sure to create the 'empty' death event to set the FH 'living' flag which apparently cannot be seen, or must use the 'custom' FLAGS' perhaps, which CodeValleyGirl referred to?
Last edited by ronk on 19 Mar 2017 14:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by tatewise »

You are missing the point Ron.
The FH Living flag can ONLY mark a person as alive, and CANNOT mark them as deceased.
In FH and TNG in effect the Death Event IS the Deceased flag.

As Helen says you could create a Deceased flag and use that.
I know you use the Export Gedcom File Plugin to transfer to TNG which retains one flag per person.
Can TNG be told to treat such a flag as indicating deceased?

There are various ways to see record flags.
Select an Individual and use Edit > Record Flags that ticks each flag applied to that record, and is a way to add/delete flags.
Use View > Standard Queries > Has Flag and choose the desired flag name to list all Individuals that have it.
In the Property Box on the All tab any Flags are listed at the bottom.
A custom tab can be defined in the Property Box to show/edit the flags.
Custom Columns can be added to the Records Window to show Flags.
Flags can be use to trigger Icons or other features in Diagrams.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by LornaCraig »

One more to add to Mike's list:
Tools > Named Lists and Flags
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

Mike,

Thanks for chiming in on this.

Will look at the Flags you describe. Not sure if TNG will recognize them or not. Until then, I do know the 'empty' death event does pass to TNG fine, so will use that.

Sorry for not having reviewed some of the FH options. In this case, LFT had the 'living flag' front and center at the time of data entry, with a simple tick setting it, or automatically if a date of death entered, or if a birth date > xx years entered.

I'm still a newbie on FH's many features and idiosyncrasies.

Ron
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

LornaCraig wrote:One more to add to Mike's list:
Tools > Named Lists and Flags
I see that in the tools pulldown now, will review. Not sure what you want Mike to do, document more or?

Ron
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by tatewise »

I should have just referred to how_to:using_flags_and_icons_and_expressions|> Using Flags and Icons and Expressions under Using Flags.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

As always, this forum is the best! Especially those of you who seem to spent much of their waking hours volunteering to share expertise on all topics of Family Historian. 11,158 posts,....especially you Mike, (and a couple others) Calico Pie should be paying you as part of their support staff.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

OK, so I thought all was well, having used queries to find and set empty death events for those w/o birth/death but certainly deceased. All looks well on FH, and I used the Gedcom Export plugin, then imported to TNG.

Part of what was needed was accomplished, in that the TNG living flag is no longer set for all such individuals with the death event. However, for some, the TNG death flag is set to 'Y', and some it is blank.

Examining the gedcom, it is because the DEAT is 'Y' for some, and blank for others. I've included an example, with gedcom entries for two persons, and the FH properties screens for both.

Am I missing something obvious why one DEAT entry is treated differently than the other? Both have empty Death Event in the facts tab. Or is it because the first, I13223, was imported as a Y since the import from Legacy over a year ago? That individual did have a Legacy living flag set to 'no' before the migration.

Perhaps I will need to do a find replace in the FH gedcom (not the export) and change all blank DEAT to DEAT 'Y'? Even though the living flag is now blank, the death flag is checked in TNG to be a 'Y' in order for the 'died' line to appear in the individual screen, otherwise 'died' is absent (and misleading).

I guess the question is, ..couldn't or shouldn't the gedcom export plugin set DEAT to 'Y' if the FH death event is present?

0 @I13223@ INDI
1 NAME Michal /Krzmarzick/
2 GIVN Michal
2 SURN Krzmarzick
1 SEX M
1 DEAT Y
1 FAMC @F4593@
1 FAMS @F4504@

0 @I14353@ INDI
1 NAME Johann /Fiala/
1 SEX M
1 DEAT
1 FAMS @F5098@
13223 FH.jpg
13223 FH.jpg (66.68 KiB) Viewed 11474 times
14353 FH.jpg
14353 FH.jpg (54.8 KiB) Viewed 11474 times
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by tatewise »

You need do nothing Ron.
That is known minor flaw in FH after creating new blank events.
The Gedcom specification requires the blank Death event Y to be added, but FH forgets initially.
After closing and opening FH it should sort it out automatically.
I reported it to Calico Pie a while ago, but it has not been fixed, probably because it fixes itself as explained above.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

tatewise wrote:You need do nothing Ron.
That is known minor flaw in FH after creating new blank events.
The Gedcom specification requires the blank Death event Y to be added, but FH forgets initially.
After closing and opening FH it should sort it out automatically.
Mike,
I wish that were the case, but the DEAT event remains w/o the 'Y' both in FH's Gedcom and the Export Gedcom 3.2 plugin's exported Gedcom. So I do an Editor find/replace to fix the exported file before importing to TNG.
BTW...still running FH 6.2.2.

To test further, I added a new individual with empty Death event, saved FH, closed, reopened, then exported and checked the gedcom and the DEAT is still missing the 'Y' for that individual. However, using Bcompare, I found that 136 instances of DEAT lines did now have the 'Y' (there are ~4000 of them). So FH is fixing itself, though just a bit, ...gradually??

Consequently, I will continue to to the editor find/replace to fix those ~4000 gedcom lines to be correct.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by tatewise »

Sorry, I was over economic with the details.

Having Saved, Closed, and Opened FH, you need to Save again to get the Y added.

Also the Y is only ever added to otherwise empty facts.
So DEAT tags with subsidiary DATE, PLAC, etc, data must NEVER gain the Y.
That is the Gedcom specification. It is designed to prevent empty facts being discarded.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

OK, ..that finally clarifies why I'm seeing the DEAT items w/o 'Y'; checked and they do have DATE and/or PLAC items. I suspect the 136 items which had a 'Y' added had no subsidiary items,..those that I created empty facts perhaps yesterday. Will see if TNG is now OK.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by David Potter »

Hi All

Having read through these threads and looked at the KB articles - I'm now also confused about how the Living Flag should be used. I assumed if the Living Flag was Ticked/Checked then the person is indeed Living. Else they are Dead.

If I have this wrong what is the purpose of the Tick/Check Box?
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by ronk »

LornaCraig wrote:FH does have a Living flag, but it is not a yes/no type of flag. So the presence of the flag indicates the person is living, but the absence of the flag does not imply they are deceased. I think you would have to create an 'empty' death event for those individuals if that is what TNG needs.
It appears to be as Lorna indicated, which is indeed confusing, but most likely because of Gedcom standards and yielding the most flexibility. I'm sure Lorna and Mike can give a better explanation.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by David Potter »

Thank you Ron...

Yes slightly lost by this revelation. As looking at other Flags such as those for Census and as such auto-created by AS, these are Ticked and appear to indicate Yes or No.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by brianlummis »

And it gets even more confusing if you look at the Glossary in Help :)
Record Flag
A record flag is like the answer to a Yes/No question for a given record. Family Historian is installed with only 2 record flags: Private and Living, but you can define as many of your own as you want. For example, if you want to have a way of marking a record to show that the individual is a fellow genealogist, create a Genealogist flag and set it on records for genealogists. Then the question: “Is this person a genealogist?” is answered Yes if they have that flag, and No if they don’t. You can view and set record flags for selected individuals (one or many) using the Record Flags command on the Edit menu.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by LornaCraig »

I agree the paragraph quoted above is a bit misleading. But FH flags can only have two modes: on or off. If you think about it this means that they can only indicate one state of affairs for certain. In the example of the flag for Genealogist, if set it means the person is known to be a Genealogist. But for most people in your file you will have no idea whether or not they are a Genealogist, so the absence of the flag doesn't mean much. Similarly the Living flag just means that you know for sure that someone is living. Absence of that flag just means that either you don't know or (equally likely) you have not trawled through your whole database to check whether you need to set the flag.

Some genealogy programs apparently have flags with three states, Y, N, and not set. But I don't think that conforms to the gedcom standard.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by David Potter »

Hi Lorna

Can you please clarify what the Tick/Check box is for? Does setting this as Tick/Checked imply Yes and otherwise No. You use the word 'abscence' of the Flag. That in itself is confusing. Thanks.
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by David Potter »

What I'm trying to say is that the Flag is 'Present' (therefore not Absent); unless Deleted, if Deleted then in my mind it is Absent. And if Present it is either in two states.
Ticked/Checked = Enabled = Active. Example: I Tick/Check the Living Flag I am saying this person is Living
Or Unticked/Unchecked = Disabled = Not Active. Example: I don't Tick/Check the Living Flag I'm stating they are Not Living

Have I got that right...?

Many Thanks
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Re: Set Individual as Deceased

Post by PeterR »

For any Record in the GEDCOM file a Flag can only be present or absent. A Record where the Flag is present will have a tick in the box. A Record where the Flag is absent will have no tick in the box.

I think there may have been understandable confusion between what data are actually stored in the GEDCOM file and how those data are represented in the user interface.
Last edited by PeterR on 20 Mar 2017 18:43, edited 1 time in total.
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