* FH Back up files

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Johnr65
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FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Don't know where to put this.?
However I was researching a family using the plug in for censuses and a pop up appeared over the page saying that it had changed but it reappeared and so I added more to the family from the census. At the end when closing the plug in, something occurred that caused the whole family's details to have disappeared from the program! When I exited the program to save the back up it shows only very small zip files compared to previous ones, now they are 226000 kb whereas previous ones were 3,491,000 kb. When I reload FH it shows the whole 18000 plus tree so what is causing it to back up just the last 10 updates and is it OK to proceed?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

Sorry John but I do not know how to respond with such vague details.
Which Plugin exactly?
Popup said what had changed?
What reappeared?
You cannot add to FH while running a Plugin, or perhaps you were running Ancestral Sources which is not a Plugin?
How do you know the whole family's details to have disappeared?
What type of Backup are you performing: Small, Medium, or Full?
What makes you think it is only backing up 10 updates?
More explicit details please...
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

I was running the AS data entry plug in for 1939 register and in middle of entering the family when a pop said that the 'thing' had changed-this has happened before when I move from my browser to the plug in and back again, anyway the plug in restarted where I'd left it so I was able to continue entering the family and details. On saving the census, and returning to FH program, I noticed that the whole family had disappeared apart from the mother and she was without her husband? When I exited the program it only backed up 10 files to full back up whereas normally it is about 6800 files into a full back up.
Somehow I seem to have created another project of the same name but a different date and this is the one that has 267k kb as opposed 36000kb. However when I restarted the program it still has 18000 plus people but without that family as previously stated?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

OK, first some terminology.
Ancestral Sources (AS) is NOT a Plugin. It is a Program just like Family Historian (FH).
May be you launch AS by running the Ancestral Sources Data Entry Plugin from FH, but that Plugin simply launches the AS Program with a few predefined details, and then the Plugin closes leaving both AS and FH running.

I suspect the popup message was as follows - can you please confirm?
Ancestral Sources
The GEDCOM family history file has been changed outside of Ancestral Sources and will be reloaded.

The cause of that file change needs to be considered, to avoid it happening again, as you say it has happened before.

When you ran the Ancestral Sources Data Entry Plugin from FH did it say you needed to save changes?
Did you do so?
If not, then the FH Autosave every 5 minutes is perhaps the cause?

OR perhaps you run AS directly without using the Plugin, and that risks un-Saved changes Autosave upsetting things.

OR did you make some changes in FH while AS was still in use?

OR is there some auto-backup or anti-virus tool that may be modifying the GEDCOM file in the background?

You say there seems to be another Project of the same name. Is that listed in the File > Project Window?

It appears that AS has been upset by the GEDCOM change and resulted in the Census data being put in a new file, which explains why it is so small.

When you restart FH it will use your Default Project which has not been changed by the AS new Census data.

So in summary:
Your Default Project should be OK to continue updating using AS for the new Census data.
Do you use the Ancestral Sources Data Entry Plugin to launch AS?
If not, then I strongly advise that you do, as that will almost certainly prevent such problems.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by mezentia »

I am always running FH and AS together. If you make a change to your project using AS and switch to FH, FH will say the file has changed and ask if you want to reload it. The answer is yes. If you make changes to your project in FH and save those changes, or if you have autosave set on and it has just saved the file, and switch to AS, then AS will display a pop-up telling you that the file has changed and prompt you to reload it. The answer again must be yes. If you answer no in either case you risk losing changes just made.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Thank you Mike, as you know I'm a technophobe! Yes the pop up was as you described it and it seems to happen a few times and it seems to me that it happens when I switch from the AS program to look at the browser so as to copy the info from it to AS.
I always click on the AS plug in whilst using the FH program to enter censuses, marriages, baptisms, etc. I've never used the AS program on it's own-didn't know you could!
There are now 2 projects of the same name but with different dates, the original from 210316 and the new one from 2017 which appears to be updating day by day when I exit the program. Presumably it's also updating the 2016 one as well as when I start the FH program, initially it says there are no available people and then suddenly all 18000 plus people appear?!
I guess that whatever happened I'll have to re enter the family again, bit of a bore but better than losing all the people I guess. Anyway I'll keep my eyes open to see what causes the original pop up to occur.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by mjashby »

What probably causes the 'pop-up warning' to appear when you are using both Ancestral Sources and Family Historian is, in all probability the auto-save function in Family Historian. Every time the Family Historian auto-save function is triggered, or if the Family Historian file is saved by the user, Ancestral Sources sees the 'database' as having been updated and needs to reload to see whatever changes, if any, have been made. It's the same when you save your Ancestral Sources data entry, i.e. Family Historian has to reload/refresh, because the GEDCOM data has been written to by an external program.

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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

Mervyn, the FH Autosave only happens if there are unsaved changes pending.

Providing the Ancestral Sources Data Entry Plugin is used to launch AS then that ensures there are no unsaved changes.
So that cannot be the cause.
So something else is causing the GEDCOM file to be changed.

John, when you switch from AS to the browser, are you using a separate browser such as Firefox or Chrome, OR using the FH internal Web Search Window used to get 'hints', etc. If the latter, then that is probably the cause of your problems, because any change in that FH window could change the GEDCOM file.

Alternatively, is your Project and its GEDCOM file held in a cloud storage folder such as Dropbox or OneDrive or Google Drive?

Which anti-virus package are you running, as that may be affecting the GEDCOM file?

Finally, there cannot be two Projects with exactly the same name - there must be something different - what is different?
Those two Projects cannot be updating each other - that is impossible - what makes you think they are?
Before going any further you must resolve those two Projects so there is only one.
What exactly is shown in the File > Project Window? Post a screen-shot if you can.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Hello Mike,
I use the Opera browser as I find it is better for copy and pasting than other browsers. When I copy and paste to the AS census say, I dodge between the browser and AS in order to copy the data from the source record, as they're shown on the bottom toolbar as well as the FH icon, it may be that I hit it by mistake and cause the pop up to appear? My antivirus is premium Avast and hasn't caused a problem in the several years that I've had it. I don't use cloud storage-not sure what it is or how safe it is. I back up to a portable hard disk whilst presumably my pc hard drives keeps the projects as well?
Actually the project names are different but I can't understand why when I exit FH it only backs up those files I've updated making a smaller zip back up file but when I restart FH it has all the names as if from the previous dated back up?
Can't seem to attach a Word screenshot of the projects?
The earlier project back up dated 210316 has 3491854 kb but the later project back up 130117 has only 234599 kb in the zip file project back up files? Or is the latter one updating the original 2016 project in some way so that all the names, facts and media still appear when I restart FH6?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

I always find it easier to talk in specifics.
So what exactly are the two FH Project names and their Last Updated dates in the Project Window?

When you open FH, which Project name opens by default? (It tells you top left on main window border.)
How do you open FH?

When you exit FH, and get the Backup on Exit prompt, which Project name is stated?

What exactly are the filenames of the small and large Backup ZIP files you mention?

Remember that when using FH it operates directly on the current Gedcom file and Media files in the Project folder, and they are quite separate for the Backup files.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

The projects are RosserHenderson110117 and Rosser210316.
I open the project by clicking on the FH icon on my desktop and by default it opens the 1st one above. When I exit, it backs up to the 1st one.
The large zip file is Rosser210316 and the small zip is RosserHenderson110117

Regarding your last comment, does that mean it gets the info from the pc's hard drive files?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

John, you did not give me their Last Updated dates in the Project Window.

How many Individuals and Families in those two Projects?
It tells you on bottom right of main FH border.
Make sure you identify which numbers go with which Project.

From what you are saying, it seems you are currently always working in the smaller RosserHenderson110117 project.

Can you PLEASE give me the complete full exact filenames of the Backup ZIP files.
They should be something like FH Project Backup - RosserHenderson110117 - 2017-01-15 0024.zip

Yes, just like all other programs, FH gets its data directly from hard-drive files.
Those files reside within the Project folder quite separately from the Backup zip files.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

The last updated dates in the project window are for Rosser 13/01/17 and for RosserHenderson 15/01/17
People in RosserHenderson 110117 are currently 18529, in Rosser there are 18505
Full back up zip files are FH Project Backup - RosserHenderson110117 - 2017-01-1552.zip and
FH Project Backup - Rosser210316 - 2017-01-112208.zip

So again the files that on the pc hard drive are separate from the portable hard drive but presumably they're keeping up with the back ups or not?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Regarding the project file Rosser210316 in the window when I look at the people they show no relationship to me! Whereas the RH110117 shows their relationships to me.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

So those statistics tell me that:
RosserHenderson110117 project has 24 more Individuals than Rosser210316 project.
You did not give me the number of Families.

So RosserHenderson110117 should have the larger backup zip file.
What is the actual Size of both the two backup zip files.

It might also be worth doing a couple of further checks to explain why one backup is so different in Size.
Use File > File Statistics for both projects and Copy & Paste both the displayed details into your reply here.

Use Tools > External File Links and scroll down to look for any X marks against any files.
Do that in both projects, and tell me if you find any X marks.

Backups:
There is no such concept as 'keeping up with the backups'.
The files on the PC hard drive hold the current latest state of each Project, whether backed up or not.
The backups are frozen snapshots taken at the time of the backup, and that time is given in the filename.
e.g. FH Project Backup - Rosser210316 - 2017-01-11 2208.zip was taken at 22:08 pm on 11-01-2017 but in filename shown in reverse so that it sorts into date-time order.

Relationships:
In Rosser210316 project who is the File Root?
i.e. who is in focus in the Focus Window after you click the Home button top left?
Make yourself the focus person, and then right-click your box and choose Make File Root.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

In Rosser210316 I am the file root but there is no media or relationships; also in that project there are 18505 people and only 2 families!
RosserHenderson110117 back up 262847kb and Rosser210316 back up 3491854 kb
File statistics are:
File Name: E:\Family Historian Projects\Rosser 210316\Rosser 210316.fh_data\Rosser 210316.ged
Record Counts...
Individual Records:18505
Family Records: 3
Note Records: 0
Source Records: 4155
Repository Records: 0
Submitter Records: 0
Submission Records: 0
Media Records: 0
Place Records: 4480

File Name: E:\Family Historian Projects\RosserHenderson110117\RosserHenderson110117.fh_data\RosserHenderson110117.ged

Record Counts...
Individual Records:18529
Family Records: 6493
Note Records: 0
Source Records: 28741
Repository Records: 415
Submitter Records: 0
Submission Records: 0
Media Records: 2716
Place Records: 4398


RosserHenderson110117 has no X's in the external file links
Rosser210316 has no linked files.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Forgot to say that RosserHenderson110117 has 6493 families of 18529 people.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

That explains a lot.

The Rosser 210316 Project has almost no Family Records and thus no family relationships.
It also has no Media Records and thus probably no external Media files.
So its Backup ZIP file will only contain relatively small textual files such as the Gedcom , and no large Media image files.
This should be a relatively small backup file.
This project is seriously corrupt, and should be left well alone, and perhaps eventually deleted.

The RosserHenderson110117 Project has many Family Records and some Repository Records and Media Records.
It also has a full set of external Media files.
So its Backup ZIP file will be much, much larger to hold all those large Media image files.
(BTW: This is the reverse of what you were saying earlier.)
This is the Project to move forward with.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

The problem is that RosserHenderson110117 project's back up file is the smaller of the 2 at 262847 kb and not the largest on the portable hd :?: , so what to do about that? Or am I saving the wrong back up file from RosserHenderson110117?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

Yes, sorry, you did give those sizes earlier - my mistake. That does need further investigation.

Earlier you gave the backup file as FH Project Backup - Rosser210316 - 2017-01-11 2208.zip which means that Project was backed up on 11-01-2017. What size do you get if you backup that Rosser210316 Project now?

Not sure what you mean by 'saving the wrong back up file'.
When you create a backup it saves a current snapshot of the Project and time-stamps the file as described earlier.
Do you backup directly to the portable HD, or backup to the PC HD and subsequently copy to the portable HD?
Anyway, somewhere you should have a whole series of similarly named backup files that only differ by their time-stamps.
The time-stamp is the bit with the filename format yyyy-mm-dd hhmm i.e. 2017-01-11 2208
Also in File Explorer the Date Modified should be very similar.

You could try restoring that large FH Project Backup - Rosser210316 - 2017-01-11 2208.zip file to see what it provides.
In FH use File > Backup/Restore > Restore Backup and select and Open that large file.
You will have to choose a New Project Name such as Rosser150117 then click Restore button.
When complete, use File > File Statistics and Tools > External File Links, then post the details here as before.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Strangely when I backed up the Rosser210316 project, it has now 3,497,218 kb against the original 3,491,854 kb.
Restoring the FH Project Backup - Rosser210316 - 2017-01-11 2208.zip file gives:
File Name: E:\Family Historian Projects\Rosser 150117\Rosser 150117.fh_data\Rosser 150117.ged

Record Counts...
Individual Records:18505
Family Records: 6526
Note Records: 136
Source Records: 30088
Repository Records: 427
Submitter Records: 0
Submission Records: 0
Media Records: 2743
Place Records: 4481
On the tools, external file links, there is one x against ajg 1939. jpg

Also although it has most of the original family member's details missing that I was researching at the original 'crash' time, it does show relationships to me as well as the media, photos, etc, as far as I can see.
So I suppose that is a positive outcome?
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

Yes, that all looks very good, and proves the benefit of backups.

Those record statistics appear very similar to RosserHenderson110117 and all but one media file are OK.
So the restored Rosser 150117 Project is the one to go forwards with and make that your Default Project.
You will have to re-enter any data added since 11-01-2017.

The Rosser210316 backup may be bigger because it has a few more Media files, although it is missing all the Media Records.

You have backups of the Rosser210316 and RosserHenderson110117 Projects, so I suggest you use File > Project Window > More Tasks > Delete Project to delete those two corrupt/redundant Projects. You must select the Project name before clicking More Tasks.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

Thank you very much Mike, it's been a long time consuming problem that you've solved for me; perhaps I caused it by pressing a wrong button on the pop up window or.... who knows. However I'll save a report of my previously 'lost' data from the other tree project and then I can copy and paste from it to the new 150117 project. How do I rectify the x rated 'lost' media file?
By the way on the subject of saving /printing when I publish a report the save line defaults to the name of the project-is there a way of changing this to refer to the actual report or as now just amending the default to read what I want? :D :D
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by tatewise »

Regarding the X missing Media file, in Tools > External File Links try using Auto Repair Links button.

If that does not fix the link, then you need to find that ajg 1939. jpg file another way...
Is it anything to do with the 1939 Register?

Check the RosserHenderson110117 Project to see if it has a copy.

Otherwise, you will have to investigate the associated Media record.
In Tools > External File Links see the Where Used box at bottom and click the Go To button.
You may then have to find out where that Media record is used via View > Record Links.
When you know what that image file represents you will have to download it or scan it again.

Regarding publishing a Report, I don't know what 'save line' you are talking about.
None of my Reports mention the Project name anywhere.
Can you give a more specific explanation please.
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Re: FH Back up files

Post by Johnr65 »

The auto repair worked!
When publishing a say descendant narrative report, it is generated and if I press print it takes me to the print pop up if I then set it up for the FH PDF and press OK, it shows the file name as the current project name.
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